blog

Alex is not ten. Quite clearly, we intended to din...

2010-03-07T02:56:35.925Z

Alex is not ten. Quite clearly, we intended to dine, as we did at the Corner Pin. So what's your point?

The sign on all the doors stated that children ...

2010-03-06T18:42:43.163Z
The sign on all the doors stated that children below the age of ten are not welcome anywhere on the premises.

Excellent, why would anyone want to take a child into a pub, if not for a meal? There are plenty of family dining pubs around, and of course now Wetherspoons are happy to admit accompanied children if dining.

Well done - Here is the official listing:
2009-06-13T06:18:14.007+01:00
Well done - Here is the official listing: Forest House.

It is also absent from myPUBGUIDE too. I intend to include it.

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's actually called...

2009-06-12T23:19:17.688+01:00
Sorry to be a pedant, but it's actually called the Forest House.

Bizarre, the summary page on the website states th...

2009-05-12T06:25:00.000+01:00
Bizarre, the summary page on the website states that it is a quiet session.... Anyway, I'll show them my support.

I asked about the exchange. One token per half pin...

2009-05-12T06:21:00.000+01:00
I asked about the exchange. One token per half pint. Each token was £1. Also, I inquired beforehand if these tokens were refundable. It is that these were not that irks me.

Incidentally, these were only sold in batchs of fives. Two lots shared with my son may not be enough; but three lots would have been irresponsible. Therefore, being able to pay directly in Sterling would have been a better option, at least for those with children.

I understand that on the Friday lunchtime there is...

2009-05-11T23:26:00.000+01:00
I understand that on the Friday lunchtime there is likely to be a choir made up of people helped by the Stockport Cerebral Palsy Society, which is this year's Festival Charity.

However, as the entertainment is staged in a room entirely separate from the bar, anyone who wants to avoid it has no problem.

Hopefully you'll be able to show your support even if just for a few minutes, though.

Hmm, in my (possibly more limited than your) exper...

2009-05-11T23:10:00.000+01:00
Hmm, in my (possibly more limited than your) experience, most beer festivals use tokens, and they will say at point of sale whether or not they're returnable (if not, ask).

I understand that you cannot know how many tokens you will spend on your son, but (a) at the token stall they must be able to give you the average price of a pint, everyone needs to know (or you can find out for yourself) and (b) you can buy more if you run out.

I'm confused! Are you saying you were not allowed back to the reception area to buy more? Or are you unhappy they were not returnable?

On a different note, I get strange amusement from trying to use up every single one of my tokens even if they are refundable, feels (by that stage in the evening) like I'm making a point. This can mean offering them to strangers who are short of a couple, or persuading strangers to donate some to me... anyway, that's just me I guess.

beertester.blogspot.com

Without thinking too hard: The George had no real ale when I went down after reading in Opening Times that it had some.

Where is this conventional UK definition of real a...

2009-01-17T09:13:00.000Z
Where is this conventional UK definition of real ale? I have looked here: http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=100330

It dances with the daisies with its use of terms such as 'traditional'.

Also, why does water quality (its impurity or staleness) or adding sugar that is not actually from the hop, fruit, etc., come into such 'definitions'? I am not picking, I am curious.

But the conventional UK definition of Real Ale doe...

2009-01-16T22:43:00.000Z
But the conventional UK definition of Real Ale does not mean beers that adhere to the Reinheitsgebot. You will find that a large majority of the "real ale" sold in the UK contains adjuncts to a greater or lesser degree.

Also the sulphuriness of Robinson's (and Marston's) beers comes from the water, not the brewing ingredients.

I guess that the author strictly meant beers brewe...

2009-01-16T22:30:00.000Z
I guess that the author strictly meant beers brewed according to Reinheitsgebot. As an aside, Opening Times is full of advertisments for Robinson's pubs, which sell products containing sulphur. These products do not accord to Reinheitsgebot.

Any examples? Opening Times would never mention pu...

2009-01-16T21:09:00.000Z
Any examples? Opening Times would never mention pubs favourably, or allow them to advertise, if they didn't normally serve real ale.

With you on the CAMRA comment!

2009-01-03T21:57:00.000Z
With you on the CAMRA comment!

Thanks, ale fan - we're largely in agreement. It's...

2008-10-21T23:22:00.000+01:00
Thanks, ale fan - we're largely in agreement. It's good that a Camra member is also quite critical of this particular "campaign."

Your final paragraph is spot on!

I'm a CAMRA member but do take issue with them of ...

2008-10-20T21:38:00.000+01:00
I'm a CAMRA member but do take issue with them of many of their recent protestations. I actually don't think the price of a pint in a pub is too high. I don't say that because I like paying high prices but if you consider a coffee in a coffee house or a bottle of wine in a restaurant it appears to be about right. What I don't like is the poor quality experience you sometimes get for that money. Pubs need to adapt or die - 1st class quality will bring punters in but standing still will just hasten the decay of the pub.

You can't compare supermarket beer prices with pub prices - they are two totally different markets. The price differences are irrelevant.

For a consumer organisation CAMRA is far too much on the side of the supplier rather than the consumer (us drinkers).

Excellent - It is about time that someone spoke ou...

2008-10-19T21:06:00.000+01:00
Excellent - It is about time that someone spoke out against the foolishness expounded by that Camra cult

As promised, check the latest post and you shall s...

2007-12-09T12:30:00.000Z
As promised, check the latest post and you shall see that MyPubGuide.com has been launched. There are some interesting comments already.

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

2007-11-12T21:56:00.000Z
This is the last time I am replying to this nonsense. After this posting I will leave you to your own devices.

Call it what you like – I do appreciate your feedback and you have invested quite a bit of time in it.

1. I have tried and failed to explain how you have misinterpreted what CAMRA's website says. I am quite happy that my stance, and that of Opening Times, is perfectly in accord with it. If you want to read it differently that's up to you.

Definitionally, you cannot have two things that are different that the same. If you cannot see the difference then I would like to suggest a course on semantics and logic.

2. You obviously have some sort of bee in your bonnet about this. As I have already said, I think we will have to agree to differ.

You have a problem with organisations such as Stella and the fact that UK is not a statist economy. Move to a different country. I merely reiterate how markets work, irrespective of which organisation you profess to support (despite your person, local, and nation differences – your call not mine)

3. True - but you did say that the CAMRA Members Investment Club should not invest in the company as they don't produce any real ale . They do - it's as simple as that.

The initial statement was: “Setting up a limited company to buy shares in an organisation whose interests are the antithesis of real ale, under the banner of a real ale organisation” – Carlsberg corporation are the antithesis of real ale, subsumed the Tetley brand, and white labelled it to increase its profits rather than commit an act of real ale altruism. From your account, it seems ok for Carlsberg to act this way but not for Stella Artois to take advantage of the market mechanism. Sounds like source for the goose but not for the gander. Please see point [2] for advice.

4. Find a different venue at the right price and it will be looked at. We have tried and failed. Anyway, I wasn't nit-picking, I just didn't have a clue what you were on about.

I replaced a pronoun and now you understand my point. Please see [1] for advice.

5. Noted

Curmudgeon had a bit or two to write on this in the November issue of Opening Times. I intend to express my thoughts on this later.

6. Given that you have already accused Opening Times of a pro-Robinson's bias, I would have though you already had sufficient material to go at. Surely you're not saying that this allegation was made on the basis of little or no evidence? Why not start with the evidence you do have? You do have some, don't you?

I have some evidence; less so in recent issues though.

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

2007-11-12T19:37:00.000Z
This is the last time I am replying to this nonsense. After this posting I will leave you to your own devices.

1. I have tried and failed to explain how you have misinterpreted what CAMRA's website says. I am quite happy that my stance, and that of Opening Times, is perfectly in accord with it. If you want to read it differently that's up to you.

2. You obviously have some sort of bee in your bonnet about this. As I have already said, I think we will have to agree to differ.

3. True - but you did say that the CAMRA Members Investment Club should not invest in the company as they don't produce any real ale . They do - it's as simple as that.

4. Find a different venue at the right price and it will be looked at. We have tried and failed. Anyway, I wasn't nit-picking, I just didn't have a clue what you were on about.

5. Noted

6. Given that you have already accused Opening Times of a pro-Robinson's bias, I would have though you already had sufficient material to go at. Surely you're not saying that this allegation was made on the basis of little or no evidence? Why not start with the evidence you do have? You do have some, don't you?

You are as safe as houses. The production website ...

2007-11-12T11:00:00.000Z
You are as safe as houses. The production website itself (MyPubGuide.com) is still in its development stages. It does not go live until December. Therefore, I expect no more than a handful of people shall read this.

1. Your position seems a dishonest one; you trying to argue that black is white. CAMRA’s website states what I have said it says but you would like some variation on this because it is not what you would like it to mean. Emphatically, your options are to change the copy on the website to either explicitly state your bent on the matters or change your position to match what it says on the website.

2. You have not proved anything on this score except that you have a tendency to attempt to put words in my mouth. All references to supermarkets have included references to price. Furthermore, the idea of such market rigging is on the wrong side of 1979. It smells of controlled economies and other undesirable manifestations of collectivism. It would be interesting to hear how you or CAMRA (as you clearly differ in option on [1]) would bring this about. Possibly without irony, I find similar half-baked ideas running through Roger Protz’s other brainchild, International Socialists. The similarities between International Socialists and CAMRA are quite staggering and possibly uncoincidental due to each sharing a common history.

3. To repeat: Tetley is small concern for Carlsberg. Its chief emphasis is not real ale and it could be argued that Carlsberg’s main products help crowd out real ale from the pumps of an average local pub.

4. My point is that London is far from geographically central and a more geographically central location could have been chosen to host the festival. The north-south issue was continued due to your apparent nitpicking.

5. My point was over Pub of Month being awarded family-friendly policies, which you already answered satisfactorily. The references to which organisation won Pub of Month was down to that I did not recall reading that any of those chains won the award. I am not saying you are wrong; I was saying that I did not recall reading it.

6. I look forward to getting the time to do it – Any chance of telling me where I might obtain some of the back issues from 2006?

Oh God, I know I should never have got involved wi...

2007-11-12T06:58:00.000Z
Oh God, I know I should never have got involved with all of this. I don't think I'never going to convince you that you are wrong (not that I'm too bothered as I guess that not many people have been reading this). Anyway...

1. I am fully aware of CAMRA's policy. Indeed I helped formulate the proposal, adopted a few years ago, that campigning for pubs should be put on an equal footing as campaigning for real ale.

I also know what it ways on the website and what CAMRA's policy is. However just because we have a policy of general support for "the pub" it does not mean that we will actively campaign for the retention of every pub everywhere - there are many local examples of pubs closing where we haven't made any sort of fuss at all. I think it's fair to say though that almost any pub closure must be a cause for some regeret - a poor pub can alsways improve but a closed pub is (usually) gone for ever. On the other hand though, there are some area that are clearly over-pubbed and the winnowing out of the weaker ones may boost the chances of the remaining, usually better run, establishments. It's not always a black and white issue - and despite what you may think, what it says on CAMRA's website does not, and never has, meant that we give complete and unconditional support to every pub in the country regardless of the circumstances. If you want to put a different gloss on that then that's up to you and I can do nothing about that.

2. I don't think there's anything else I can say here. We are clearly at odds and unlikely to agree. I would just say though that I think I have porved that we are not against supermarkets eling "alcoholic beverages" per se (which was your original argument) but only certain "alcoholic beverages" at certain prices. Whether or not you think that's a sensible or coherent policy is up to you. I'm quite happy with it.

3. Bit of ducking and weaving on your part here. AS far as I know the Tetley Brewery is run by a 100% subsidiary of Carlsberg - so it clearly makes sense to hold shares in the company that calls the shots. I think you have to admit you were wrong on this one (fat chance I guess, but I hope to be proved wrong).

4. I guess that depends on what you term 'the north' but I still fail to grasp your main gripe here - and to be honest I am now losing interest.

5. Nicely ducked! I still think I've blown your argument out of the water, though.

6. Don't take too long though - or conveniently "forget" about it if the results prove rather too inconclusive for you.

Here we go again:

1. Your interpreta...

2007-11-12T00:28:00.000Z
Here we go again:

1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm afraid. I don't think that what it says on the CAMRA website means what you think it does - of course if you are determined to put your own gloss on this then there is nothing I can do about that. I do think though that your determination to read more into this than is there says more about your own prejudices than anything else.

The previous quote was just one source but here it is written clearly with the unequivocal message that I have previously mentioned: CAMRA's Website. It states as its first aim that CAMRA is committed “Conservation of our existing pubs”. Looks like you could benefit from reading the copy on the CAMRA website. Instead of speaking volumes about my putative prejudices, it makes it clear that you are unaware of the very policies of the organisation that you represent.

There is of course often a good reason for pubs closing. However on the other hand, particularly in rural areas, many perfectly viable pubs have been the subject to sudden and arbitrary change of use applications by people who have bought them not with a view to running them as pubs but to convert them into housing. Sometimes this can be the last pub in a community and I see nothing wrong with trying to prevent such losses where it is appropriate.

Yes, but these are not the only pubs CAMRA seek to conserve, maintain, and promote.

2. I think we may have to agree to differ here. I firmly believe that bulk discounting, and indeed sometime loss leading, of stuff like Stella is doing the pub trade no favours at all.

You are baying at the moon on this one. I do not see the reason that Stella or any other organisation should be penalised for its success. If you believe, however, that there is illegal malpractice then feel free to contact the Monopolies and Mergers commission.

3. Be that as it may - the thrust of your argument was that the CAMRA Members Investment Club should not buy Carlsberg shares as the company produced no real ale. I have demonstrated to you that this was a false premise. If you want to move the goal posts now that's up to you - again something that says more about your innate prejudice against CAMRA than anything else. What I would say though it that the Tetley Brewery is an important cask ale brewery and it is only right that the Investment Club should hold shares in the company that owns it.

Not exactly true, a subsidiary of the Carlsberg group produces real ale.

4. You've lost me now. What do you mean , "more of a Northern tradition"? In fact there is a greater percentage of pubs selling cask beer in the south than there is in the north.

In absolute terms, more real ale is brewed in the North.

5. Trust me - the figures are correct. It seems that you have been shooting from the hip without really knowing the facts. Doesn't do your credibility much good, I'm afraid.

Please see [1] – one could argue that it is not my credibility that is at stake. You seem unaware of CAMRA’s official position matters. Are you not the district representative for CAMRA?

6. I wait with bated breath.

Thank you – this task should not be rushed

Well

1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm a...

2007-11-11T23:15:00.000Z
Well

1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm afraid. I don't think that what it says on the CAMRA website means what you think it does - of course if you are determined to put your own gloss on this then there is nothing I can do about that. I do think though that your determination to read more into this than is there says more about your own prejudices than anything else.

There is of course often a good reason for pubs closing. However on the other hand, particularly in rural areas, many perfectly viable pubs have been the subject to sudden and arbitrary change of use applications by people who have bought them not with a view to running them as pubs but to convert them into housing. Sometimes this can be the last pub in a community and I see nothing wrong with trying to prevent such losses where it is appropriate.

2. I think we may have to agree to differ here. I firmly believe that bulk discounting, and indeed sometime loss leading, of stuff like Stella is doing the pub trade no favours at all.

3. Be that as it may - the thrust of your argument was that the CAMRA Members Investment Club should not buy Carlsberg shares as the company produced no real ale. I have demonstrated to you that this was a false premise. If you want to move the goal posts now that's up to you - again something that says more about your innate prejudice against CAMRA than anything else. What I would say though it that the Tetley Brewery is an important cask ale brewery and it is only right that the Investment Club should hold shares in the company that owns it.

4. You've lost me now. What do you mean , "more of a Northern tradition"? In fact there is a greater percentage of pubs selling cask beer in the south than there is in the north.

5. Trust me - the figures are correct. It seems that you have been shooting from the hip without really knowing the facts. Doesn't do your credibility much good, I'm afraid.

6. I wait with bated breath.

The points appear to be converging now
<...

2007-11-11T18:11:00.000Z
The points appear to be converging now

Hmm. Well..

1. I don't know about CAMRA nationally but all I can say locally is that we certainly do not have unconditional support for all local public houses (see some of the less than kind comments in the Stagger articles for example). Generaly speaking I don't think anyone locally who would disagree with anything you say here - I certainly don't. I think I should just mention that we do sometimes mention less than ideal (or even keg-only) pubs if we are trying to prevent, say, the unnecessary alteration or demolition of an important heritage pub.

This one of my sources for unconditional support is CAMRA’s own website, where there is no discernment over which pub to save. I interpret the following and other literature as a save-them-all attitude: “While planning permission is needed to convert pubs into homes, full planning permission is not normally required to demolish a pub or convert a pub into a shop or restaurant. CAMRA wants to prevent pubs being demolished or converted to another use without planning permission. It is after all only right that local people are given a chance to object to the loss of their local pub.” I might add that there can be good reason for the demolition or conversion of building, especially with jarring housing issues. However, I fear that conversation would take us well outside the remit of real ale.

2.Sorry, but I'm stil not sure what your point is here. I think it's fair to say though that CAMRA prefers to see ebeer consumed in the pub than elsewhere. However that's not to say there are some very good bottled beers available and we certainly promote those too. The Booth's supermarket chain (neares branch Knutsford) often has its praises sung by CAMRA for its extensive range of good bottled beers and ciders. What we do object to though, is the bulk discounting of, say Stella Artois, so that you can buy it in the supermarket for about 80p a pint - this does the pub trade no good at all.

My whole point is that there is good reason that some pubs close. It can be because they are ineffectively run and the consumer chooses to go elsewhere. As for bulk discounting, whether it be real ale or mouthwash, it is down to the seller which price he chooses to set and the consumer whether he agrees to pay the price for a particular good. Frankly, I believe taxation of alcoholic drinks is already unacceptable. Paying more is simply not persuasive. It is down to pubs to improve their service and offer a unique or differentiated product/service to entice customers back.

3. My mistake (and I'm a member of it!!). Still, I don't think it matters as it is still nothing to do with CAMRA. Carlsberg do in fact make cask beer - they own the Tetley Brewery in Leeds. The Investment Club does not buy shares in any company that does not sell and/or produce cask beer.

Tetley is small concern for Carlsberg. Its chief emphasis is not real ale and it could be argued that main products help crowd out real ale from the pumps of an average local pub.

4. Noted

Whether a local or a national CAMRA concern, I am unhappy that CAMRA should choose to host its biggest festival in somewhere so remote for what is more of a Northern tradition.

5. Pubs of the Month - taking the two years from January 2006 (we have selected December's already) the awards have gone to the following:

Hydes - 6
Pub Cos (various) - 7
Robinsons - 3
Marstons - 1
Cains - 1
Porters - 1
Holts - 2
Free Houses - 2
Wetherspoons 1

Robbies bias?? There are in fact only three cask Sam Smith pubs in the branch area. The last time one of those was Pub of the Month was November 2005. (In fact we only have four Wetherspoons, too and one of those was Pub of the Month in August)

Thank you, interesting statistics - I do not have all those issues here but if what you say is correct then that appears to be a better distribution than I had impressionistically anticipated.

6. Take any time period you like - how about the last two or three years? That should give you plenty to go at.

I intend to find instances of bias but also note aspects of balance. Chances are that this endeavour could turn into another post / article.

blog

Alex is not ten. Quite clearly, we intended to din...

The sign on all the doors stated that children ...

Well done - Here is the official listing:
2009-06-13T06:18:14.007+01:00
Well done - Here is the official listing: Forest House.

It is also absent from myPUBGUIDE too. I intend to include it.

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's actually called...

Bizarre, the summary page on the website states th...

I asked about the exchange. One token per half pin...

I understand that on the Friday lunchtime there is...

Hmm, in my (possibly more limited than your) exper...

Without thinking too hard: The George had no real ale when I went down after reading in Opening Times that it had some.

Where is this conventional UK definition of real a...

But the conventional UK definition of Real Ale doe...

I guess that the author strictly meant beers brewe...

Any examples? Opening Times would never mention pu...

With you on the CAMRA comment!

Thanks, ale fan - we're largely in agreement. It's...

I'm a CAMRA member but do take issue with them of ...

Excellent - It is about time that someone spoke ou...

As promised, check the latest post and you shall s...

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

You are as safe as houses. The production website ...

Oh God, I know I should never have got involved wi...

Here we go again:

1. Your interpreta...

Well

1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm a...

The points appear to be converging now
<...

blog

Alex is not ten. Quite clearly, we intended to din...

The sign on all the doors stated that children ...

Well done - Here is the official listing: 2009-06-13T06:18:14.007+01:00 Well done - Here is the official listing: Forest House. It is also absent from myPUBGUIDE too. I intend to include it.

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's actually called...

Bizarre, the summary page on the website states th...

I asked about the exchange. One token per half pin...

I understand that on the Friday lunchtime there is...

Hmm, in my (possibly more limited than your) exper...

Without thinking too hard: The George had no real ale when I went down after reading in Opening Times that it had some.

Where is this conventional UK definition of real a...

But the conventional UK definition of Real Ale doe...

I guess that the author strictly meant beers brewe...

Any examples? Opening Times would never mention pu...

With you on the CAMRA comment!

Thanks, ale fan - we're largely in agreement. It's...

I'm a CAMRA member but do take issue with them of ...

Excellent - It is about time that someone spoke ou...

As promised, check the latest post and you shall s...

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

This is the last time I am replying to this nonsen...

You are as safe as houses. The production website ...

Oh God, I know I should never have got involved wi...

Here we go again:1. Your interpreta...

Well1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm a...

The points appear to be converging now<...

Well done - Here is the official listing:
2009-06-13T06:18:14.007+01:00
Well done - Here is the official listing: Forest House.

It is also absent from myPUBGUIDE too. I intend to include it.

Here we go again:

1. Your interpreta...

Well

1. Your interpretation is wrong, I'm a...

The points appear to be converging now
<...